Quick Cryptic 1164 by Wurm

Author   curaristPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
Right, so I overslept today and had to rush to meet (miss) my 08.00 deadline, and I could have done with an easy one, but in my bleary-eyed state this was quite a workout. Nice surfaces, lots of diverse anagrinds. My fave is probably 2dn.

Across
1 Servant dissects live mouse (5,3)
BLACK EYE – servant is LACKEY, which ‘dissects’ i.e cuts into BE (live). Would have been easier if I had remembered that particular meaning of ‘mouse’
5 Husband flees cabin fire (4)
SACK – cabin is SHACK, minus H for husband
7 Fat, solidified, covering uniform (4)
SUET – SET is solidified, around U for uniform (NATO phonetic alphabet)
8 Obsolete Levi made to suffer (8)
MEDIEVAL – anagram (‘to suffer’) of LEVI MADE
9 Interview spectators (8)
AUDIENCE – double definition
11 Repartee, not bad in advancing years (3)
AGE –  repartee is BADINAGE, take off BAD IN
13 Soak companion after anorak returned (6)
DRENCH – companion is always CH (Companion of Honour), anorak is NERD
16 Right to stop an ancient poet (6)
ARNOLD – AN + OLD with R inserted
18 Old Norse and English, united (3)
ONE – ON is Old Norse, E is english
19 Energy fuels mad Orlando artist (8)
LEONARDO – anagram (‘mad’) of ORLANDO, with E for energy inside
20 Hack on dark sweet ale (8)
REPORTER – RE + PORTER. Felt like there were too many words in this. I know porter is a kind of ale, but having never drunk it I did not know it was dark and sweet, and those words set off all manner of wild goose chases.
22 With everything needed to create barrier (4)
WALL – W (‘with’ in crosswordland) + ALL
23 Only travelling around French city (4)
LYON – anagram (‘travelling around’) of ONLY
24 CD reader modelled in wood (3,5)
RED CEDAR – anagram (‘modelled’) of CD READER

Down
1 Shoot involves celebrated bird (7)
BUSTARD – Shoot is BUD, celebrated is STAR, assemble.
2 Port, rum, beer and last of wine (8)
ABERDEEN – anagram (‘rum’) of BEER + AND + E
3 People in hamlet prepared Swiss cheese (9)
EMMENTHAL – anagram (‘prepared’) of HAMLET, with MEN (people) inside. Ugh, where did that H come from?
4 Somewhat fiendish purpose (3)
END – hidden word: fiENDish
5 General‘s son with her husband (7)
SHERMAN – S + HER MAN
6 Part of church with luck found on left (7)
CHANCEL – CHANCE + L
10 Smitten female married our editor (9)
ENAMOURED – ENA (female) + M + OUR + ED
12 Staff splitting fruit for epicure (8)
GOURMAND – staff (verb) is MAN, fruit is GOURD, assemble. I though gourmet was epicure, and gourmand was just a fat b******.
14 Bishop in gown has line in crime (7)
ROBBERY – B is bishop (chess notation), inside ROBE, with RY for (railway) line (OS maps etc)
15 Just arrived from north-east, Brown taken out (7)
NEWBORN – NE + anagram (‘taken out’) of BROWN
17 Odd role disorientated scribbler (7)
DOODLER – anagram (‘disorientated’) of ODD ROLE
21 Sailor pinching prostitute’s bottom (3)
TAR – prostitute is TART, minus the end

44 comments on “Quick Cryptic 1164 by Wurm”

  1. I remember thinking, as I worked toward the end, “This is HARD!” ‘Obsolete’ struck me as an odd definition for MEDIEVAL (don’t tell me it’s in Chambers; everything’s in Chambers). There was some discussion of ‘badinage’ in a 15×15 some time ago, where it was a solution that many said they didn’t know; here, at least, the solution is pretty much forced on one (I just now noticed the odd grid is back). Same thought as Curarist about gourmet vs. gourmand, but no doubt Chambers will back the setter. BLACK EYE only came to me because EYE was forced on me, and I finally remembered ‘mouse’. Never did figure out TAR. I just checked my ODE, and it gives ‘Emmenthal’ as an alternative to ‘Emmental’, but oddly doesn’t have ‘Neandertal’, which is now the standard spelling in the scientific literature at least; I believe the Germans reformed their spelling some time ago. 7:33.

    Edited at 2018-08-24 07:44 am (UTC)

  2. Another messy solve for me, and just like yesterday very little flowed as I hopped around the grid. I completed all but 1ac in 9 minutes but then needed the equivalent of Kevin’s entire solving time to dredge up ‘mouse/black eye’ from the recesses of my mind. It’s something I learnt in a crossword years ago.

    Edited at 2018-08-24 07:41 am (UTC)

    1. Two days running with a very similar experience to jackkt. After about a minute, though, I realised that nothing else much could go between E?E except Y and there was lackey and the solution. I was happy that 11a was a gimme as advancing years didn’t sit entirely comfortably age. 10:18.
  3. That meaning of mouse in 1a was unknown to me, but is in Chambers. Hence unable to parse.
  4. Stuck in the NW! I thought of black eye but had no idea it was a mouse, biffed tar. Did not solve bustard / suet and resorted to blog (thanks!) I live in hopes of regularly solving one day…. 1 hr. Frankyanne
  5. I thought I was going well after moving away from the NW corner but came to a halt after 10 mins when I returned to it. I have never, ever, heard of a mouse as a black eye and couldn’t get bustard since I had biffed EVEN for ‘uniform’ in 7 across (my fault for not parsing after a run of successful biffs). Some nice clues – thanks to Wurm for a salutory lesson and to curarist for a very helpful blog. There will be some longer times today, I’m sure. I was well over my upper limit of 3 Kevins. John M
  6. Black eye would have been a tough clue in the main crossword in my opinion.
    1. I agree. I’d imagine it’s dated; certainly not in my vocabulary (while ‘shiner’, say, barely is).
      1. My understanding, having spent many hours of my youth listening to radio boxing commentaries, is that a mouse referred to a swelling on the face as in ‘A nasty mouse has appeared over ‘enery Cooper’s right eye.’
        1. Mouse ? No, that was the lump of petroleum jelly to try and stop the bleeding !
  7. Like others, held up for some time by 1a and the forgotten meaning of mouse. Even without that, at the harder end of the spectrum I thought. COD to ENAMOURED. 8:05
  8. At the harder end, which always sounds rude to me, but some very nice clues. And some very easy ones too! All very fairly presented I thought, and this one took me 8 minutes.

    EMMENTHAL, like NEANDERTHAL, doesn’t appear to be a controversial spelling. Thalley Girl and all that.

  9. Oh, dear… Today, there were FIVE clues that defeated me. Some of the word play here seems much more difficult and obscure than is usual in the QC. I’ve only been doing this for six months but this crossword feels like far and away the hardest one yet. Still, I’m learning all the time. In detail, black eye meaning mouse?? Never, ever heard of it. And I didn’t think of Matthew Arnold as the poet in 16 across because I was trying to fit an ancient one into the grid . I kept trying to take the letter “B” out of somewhere beginning with “Ne” in 15 down. I should have got “Sherman ” from the word play, ditto “reporter” but I was too disheartened by then, having already spent an hour trying to solve it. Thank goodness for this blog!
    1. Perhaps THE essential thing to keep in mind in solving these things is to avoid getting sucked into the surface reading: ‘…ancient poet…’ looks like ‘ancient poet’, right? Like Homer or Ovid. That’s what the setter wants you to think, so be ready to think otherwise: for instance, ancient=old, poet=[name of poet] or e.g. ‘bard’, etc.
  10. Managed to struggle through this one over breakfast and completing over lunch.

    A lot went in OK and I could even parse most after a bit of biffing with the checkers. No problem with porter or the bird. Struggled to parse the poet, though.

    Had no idea that mouse could be a shiner, so was at a complete loss for 1ac – was trying to think of a servant that could fit with ‘eye’ :{

    LOI was 2dn as I couldn’t work out which was the anagram and couldn’t even get it when all the checkers were in. Fitting words isn’t my strong point! Not helpful with crosswords…

    All in all, not one of the hardest I’ve seen recently.

    Thanks to curarist for the excellent, as always, blog – and to wurm for not making it too hard.

  11. I totally agree that this was a hard QC so I was glad to complete it in 18:10. My LOI was 7a SUET which I biffed despite the parsing being more than acceptable. I also biffed 1d BUSTARD from the wordplay and 1a BLACK EYE a complete guess. I needed the blog to understand 11a AGE so thank you curarist and Wurm.
  12. 45 minutes, much of that spent on BUSTARD and BLACK EYE (DNK & LOI). Surprised to see SHERMAN, although well known in the US for his devastation of the State of Georgia. Enjoyed 11ac (COD) although my own definition of “age” is “increasing maturity”, and TAR made me chuckle.
    PlayUpPompey
  13. Found it a slow, steady solve. Home in 15 mins. Held up by NW corner and had no idea of that meaning of mouse. 1d was LOI. Definitely felt towards the tougher end of the QC spectrum. COD to 2d which took some unpicking for me.
  14. These are getting harder/more obscure by the day. It’s a good job 11ac didn’t need to be solved, because while I knew Repartee, I would never have thought of Badinage. Likewise Mouse for black eye has escaped me these past 63 years. Completed in 45mins, but with those two unparsed. Invariant
  15. Held up at the end by the unknown BLACK EYE, but also by ABERDEEN and a self inflicted MEDEIVAL which slowed me down for SHERMAN. Otherwise not too tricky. 12:56. Thanks Wurm and Curarist.
  17. I always start with a quick scan to find some easy clues, often bottom up. TAR occurred to me immediately but I didn’t stop to parse it. I had nothing after my quick scan so I started to read the clues properly; even then it took me a while to get going. FOI was Emmenthal. After that I solved steadily. It was a great help that I have now attempted many 15x15s as these clues were often of that standard.
    My last two were 1a and finally 2d. I had worked out the parsing of 1a, a word for a servant inside BE. That led me to Black Eye which I have never known to mean Mouse. I finally saw the anagram indicator for 2d and that was the puzzle completed.
    Some excellent stuff here. COD to 2d followed by 10d. Lots of other good stuff.
    30 minutes plus in total. David
    1. Just to be pedantic–I always do my pedantic exercises before retiring–‘black eye’ does not mean ‘mouse’; ‘mouse’ means (can mean, once meant) ‘black eye’. I somehow associate the word with hard-boiled detective novels; Mickey Spillane probably got a mouse or two (mice?) in his day.
  18. I thought this was tough, but still finished on my 30 minute target.
    I don’t think a ‘mouse’ is the same as a ‘black eye’, a boxer will get the ‘mouse’ (a swelling about the size and shape of a mouse) first, then next day it will turn into a black eye. Still, close enough for a cryptic crossword.

    Brian

  19. The Stoke City of crosswords. (Actually that’s very unfair because this was highly entertaining.)

    A chewy but steady solve, finishing in 2 Kevins. FOI BLACK EYE (as a former amateur boxer “mouse” was higher up the memory tank for me than most, though I agree with Brian that strictly speaking it’s the pre-shiner swelling) but then LOI was ABERDEEN – I freeze on geography clues and always assume it’ll be somewhere obscure in Croatia. Not really sure I approve of “prostitute” (we’re supposed to say “sex worker” now) but hey ho, it’s a puzzle.

    On PORTER, curarist, I expect Wurm was trying to be over-generous to us (“Hey guys! It’s a dark sweet ale!”) but I agree with you that the result was some wild geese …

    Thanks to Wurm and curarist for helping us all out despite personal pressure!

    Templar

    PS Could NEWBORN have been a nod to Jeremy? Or are the puzzles submitted well in advance?

    1. SOED has all options covered :7 A lump or discoloured bruise, esp. one on or near the eye and caused by a blow; a black eye. slang. M19.
  20. Personally found this the most unpleasant QC for a long while. Too many anagrams, very dodgy definitions (fire/sack, obsolete/medieval, epicure/gourmand {completely wrong}) and too me unpleasant surfaces.
  21. We found this hard going and had to use aids. To be pedantic isn’t Lyon, 23 d not usually Lyons? Elin and Ian.
      1. This from The Times recently:
        On this long weekend in Lyons, France’s foodie capital, lucky couples stay at the old town’s five-star Cour des Loges hotel, dining in its Michelin-starred restaurant and each enjoying a spa treatment. There’s time, too, to sample the beautiful bar and cigar room. Provided by Maisons & Hotels Sibuet, this is just one of the prizes on offer if you vote in the Times and Sunday Times Travel Awards, which are among the most sought-after gongs in the travel industry. The lucky winner and a partner

        Saturday August 4 2018 | The Times

  22. Mouse???!!! Never, ever, heard of it. LOI and even then I didn’t know why, so thanks Curarist and fellow commenters for enlightening me. SHERMAN I only knew from Sherman tank (…..!!). I thought this was tricky overall, with some answers taking me bloody ages: SUET, ROBBERY and the aforementioned 1A. But all fairly clued and a good workout. And I did finish it (eventually), so a measure of how much I’ve improved! Thanks Wurm and Curarist.
  23. That was a decent workout but was determined to finish after yesterday’s fiasco. Eventually crossed the line in 31.43. Like others the mouse/black eye thing was new to me, but I like that a cryptic crossword clue is solvable even if you don’t understand the definition. I think I’ve had difficulty with Wurm before and today I dutifully stepped into every trap he set e.g. looking for Roman/Greek poets in 16a.
    Thanks for the blog

    Note to Editor please can we not have any more of these grids with freebies in them – if (s)he visits this site

    Edited at 2018-08-24 05:38 pm (UTC)

  24. A couple of terribly iffy clues today, ie 1ac, 8ac, imho. 1ac needed the solver to be awash with arcane crossword knowledge or, apparently, extremely old. 8ac is simply wrong – medieval does not mean obsolete in any sensible person’s book. Ho hum.
    1. I haven’t been able to find a direct correlation between the two words but under ‘medieval’ the Concise Oxford has ‘outdated’ and for ‘obsolete’ it has ‘out of date’. Neither is perhaps the original meaning but in colloquial usage there can be overlap.

      Edited at 2018-08-24 07:32 pm (UTC)

    1. The usual authorities seem to allow one, other or either, though not with any noticeable consistency.
    2. Re 23 ac LYON the Wiki entry for LYONS defaults to LYON, which I suppose could be said to be telling us something. As far as I can work out, either is good for British English.
  26. 8.27, so a standard solve. Didn’t get mouse straight off: thinking in computer input devices. But no issues.

    I’m quite intrigued by anon’s “not really sure I approve of “prostitute” (we’re supposed to say “sex worker” now)” though modified by “hey ho, it’s a crossword”. There are lots of terms for (for example) the oldest profession, and undoubtedly some people will object to many of them, especially I suppose if they have a stake in the market.

    There must be limits, but for the most part, words are words and I’m enthusiastic about latitude, even a bit of naughtiness, in crosswords. If we exclude words that might lead to offence, we’ll end up with nothing much.

    “People who take offence end up with lots of fences”

    Mind you, my dears, the fuss about GODLESS being clued by “unprincipled” in Big Brother this week I partly understood, though I remain convinced it could have been worse.

    Maybe things will settle down.

  27. Found mouse= black eye in Encarta World Dictionary where it is described as dated slang. Medieval does not mean obsolete. I remember that the idea of the Times crossword was that a reasonably well educated person could complete it without recourse to works of reference.
  28. Did this a day late and failed to finish. Not happy with obsolete / medieval or the black eye. First one we have not completed for a long time

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