Times 27729 – gentle for Gentiles and such.

Author   pipkirbyPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic
A pleasant if unexceptional puzzle today, the word play is fairly straightforward and I expect to see a low SNITCH value. It took me 15 minutes and nothing was hard to parse.

Across
1 Cheer old troopers during dance (6)
HOORAY – A HAY is a circular country dance, or a dance move. Insert O for old and OR for troopers.
4 Sort of clock face seen crossing grand city centre (7)
DIGITAL – DIAL (face) goes around G (grand) IT (centre of city).
9 Tag lines Lincoln introduced (5)
LABEL – LL for lines ABE Lincoln inside.
10 Square, where stone comes from? (3-2-4)
OUT-OF-DATE – Cryptic second meaning.
11 Legal document fool took across river (5,4)
TITLE DEED – TIT (fool) LED (took) across the River Dee.
12 Enchanting woman accompanying boxing clubs (5)
WITCH – C for clubs is boxed by WITH = accompanying.
13 Nasty bloke, putting head back, crossing line (4)
UGLY – GUY (bloke) move head back to get UGY, insert L for line.
14 It helps to climb, walk and run (10)
STEPLADDER – STEP = walk, LADDER = run as in stocking
18 Get new tights here? (4,6)
HIGH STREET – (TIGHTS HERE)*. &lit
20 Capital forfeits one seat (4)
SOFA – the capital of Bulgaria loses its I.
23 Pipe what’s brought on board by waiter finally? (5)
BRIER – brie cheese on a cheese board, add R end of waiter.
24 Modern coffee bar daughter opens (6-3)
LATTER-DAY – LATTE (sort of coffee) RAY (bar of light) insert D for daughter.
25 The writer’s cue initially unthinkingly unscripted (9)
IMPROMPTU – I’M (the writer’s) PROMPT (cue) U initial letter of unthinking.       
26 Letter or article accompanying grateful comment (5)
THETA – THE + TA. Greek letter.
27 Child recalled no small animals (7)
STEPSON – NO S PETS all reversed.
28 Pagan ignores one kind (6)
GENTLE – GENTILE drops its I. Gentile usually means non-Jewish but can also mean heathen or pagan.

Down
1 Harry girl admitting paper’s misleading remark (4-5)
HALF-TRUTH – HAL (Harry) RUTH (girl) insert FT paper.
2 Test covers part of town bypass perhaps (7)
ORBITAL – ORAL test covers BIT part.
3 Head of army strips standing up in bed? (6)
ASLEEP – A (rmy) PEELS reversed.
4 Time-consuming end of Oxford dictionary was far from sound (5)
DOTED – (Oxfor) D, OED, insert T. Doted here as an adjective means foolish or unwise.
5 One female in fast car stole parcel for birthday? (8)
GIFTWRAP – I F in GT, WRAP = stole.
6 Given tribute when carried outside (7)
TOASTED – AS (when) inside TOTED = carried.
7 End up defending conservative doctor once (5)
LEECH – HEEL reversed (end up) insert C for Conservative.
8 European sailor clutching second leading light? (4,4)
POLE STAR – POLE, TAR, insert S.
15 Pick fruit etcetera regularly brought in (8)
PLECTRUM – alternate letters of E t C e T e R a go into PLUM.
16 Unoriginal confused daydream about theatre’s closure (5-4)
READY-MADE – insert E (end of theatre) into (DAYDREAM)*.
17 American loudly leaving in a rage, attracting much interest (8)
USURIOUS – US then FURIOUS loses F.
19 Spot good story involving people in a house (7)
GLIMPSE – G (good) LIE (story) insert MPS.
21 Scrap old leaders in Daily Mail during depression (7)
ODDMENT – O = old, DENT = depression, insert DM.
22 Feel bad securing dry nick (6)
FETTLE – TT (dry) inside (FEEL)*. Nick, as in good nick, fine fettle.
23 Joy swept up contents of fossil bed (5)
BLISS – Hidden reversed in FO(SSIL B)ED.
24 Flower of Wolves cut (5)
LUPIN – LUPINE means to do with wolves, cut the E.

70 comments on “Times 27729 – gentle for Gentiles and such.”

  1. At 28A I wondered whether HEATHE was a word meaning kind. It fits the clue and the checkers. It’s just not a word. Eventually I saw GENTLE which I also had no idea meant heathen. I didn’t really have a time since I was making dinner and other stuff, but it seemed very gentle. I don’t remember any real hold ups.
  3. I wondered about GIFTWRAP, not realizing that ‘parcel’ can be a verb. FETTLE would have been longer in coming had I not just learned that meaning of ‘nick’ recently, here of course. I liked USURIOUS.
  4. I didn’t find this particularly easy. Some nice clues with smooth surfaces.

    COD: OUT-OF-DATE

  5. Yes, I like USURIOUS too, though if it hadn’t been so biffable I think 12a would have won my COD for the deceptively simple “accompanying boxing clubs” wordplay.

    25 minutes; it’s been a while since I had three in a row under the half hour, I think. I’m still waiting for my first solid week of sub-half-hour puzzles…

  6. 28 minutes for all but one answer and after a further 5 I was bored with staring at it and resorted to aids.

    The missing word was GENTLE which I might have biffed if it had come to mind but it didn’t so I was relying on wordplay which was not helpful as I don’t associate ‘pagan’ with ‘gentile’.

    Elsewhere I failed to parse GLIMPSE, so thanks for that, Pip.

    On 24ac, either my mind is playing tricks or I’ve never come across ‘bar of light’ but ignorance of that didn’t prevent me bunging in LATTER-DAY with confidence.

  7. 21′, much of it pondering whether to submit DOTED, with its strange definition. Liked PLECTRUM.

    Thanks pip and setter.

    1. Yes, that was another one I didn’t understand and got to it only through familiar wordplay.
    2. like you the LOI was DOTED, and a good two minutes taken to convince ourselves that it could be related to dotage as unsound. Thought initially the definition might be “away from the sea” as “far from sound” or a dodgy homophone.
  8. Easiest crossword ever? A Severesque grand-slam, first time in 13 years’ solving I’ve parsed and filled every word on first read of the clue. Lucky with some eg wouldn’t have got NHO usurious without all the checkers in place, and last 2 fettle & gentle took alphabet trawls. PLECTRUM COD as ETCETERA looked so unlikely.
  9. 35 mins pre-brekker.
    Two MERs:
    (1) Child=stepson. I don’t think the definition of stepson in any way indicates a child.
    (2) I can’t justify the “of” in 2dn.
    Thanks setter and Pip.

    PS On reflection, I suppose if someone asked, “Is that bloke one of your children?”, you might reply, “Yes, he’s my stepson.” The sense in which he is a child is that he is your partner’s child. But then, aren’t we all children of someone… (that’s enough – Ed)

    Edited at 2020-07-29 07:10 am (UTC)

    1. Is’t ‘of’ just a filler, indicating something like ‘made of’ or ‘consisting of’?

      Edited at 2020-07-29 07:38 am (UTC)

      1. If it is just the connector, which is what I assume, then we would have Wordplay of Definition, which is the wrong way round.
        1. It doesn’t bother me. There are two representations of the answer in a cryptic clue and neither is the ‘true’ one. So you can as validly say [definition] -> [wordplay] as [wordplay] -> [definition].

          Edited at 2020-07-29 04:39 pm (UTC)

    2. Hmm, a stepson is guaranteed to be someone’s child, isn’t he? Nothing to say he has to be young.
      As for “of,” one reason it is there would be because the clue would be rubbish without it .. but “part of” = “bit” sometimes, je pense, though I am finding an illustrative substitution hard to locate I confess
    3. ‘Of’ is ‘to do with’ or ‘relating to’, justifying the adjective. joekobi
      1. Ta. I don’t really think it works as part of the definition. If that is what is intended, it is worse than I thought.
        ‘Like’ town bypass perhaps would be ok as the def.
        …part ‘in’ town bypass would be ok as the link.

        Edited at 2020-07-29 01:27 pm (UTC)

  10. 12:51. DNK that meaning of DOTED or my LOI, USORIOUS. COD to GIFTWRAP but I liked PLECTRUM too.
  11. Not too hard, but some quite elegant clues, but perhaps I’m biased by the two spacey answers,
  12. A nice start to the day with happy memories of when the kids were little, watching the beautifully written Postman Pat. 24 minutes. LOI USURIOUS, which shared COD with HIGH STREET and PLECTRUM. I didn’t know that meaning of DOTED. The cryptic was clear enough but even so my eyes first went there when I opened up this page. Thank you Pip and setter.
  13. Top half straight in (apart from DOTED, of course), bottom half took more thought. I think I was delayed on my last in, the GENTiLE pagan by the intruding thought “Jim won’t like this, whatever the answer”. Anyway, I’m one, but not the other, which could make me a Jewish sun-worshipper, I suppose. Or not.
    16.36 with an anxious glance to 4d in case of pink, gift-wrapped or not.
  14. Good to see brier spelt (as it should be I think!) this time. MER at ‘tit’, and ‘ray’ for bar, but otherwise all done and dusted in a pleasurable 18m ish. Thank you setter and Pip.
  15. ….and the astrophysicists get polestar!
    Not as easy as others found it. Happy to get DOTED and no pink squares. 22″37″
  16. Put BRIAR instead of BRIER without understanding it, serves me right. Worried about DOTED too, I supposed it was related to dotage.

    COD: HIGH STREET, nice & lit

    Yesterday’s answer: the longest element contained in another element is actinium, in protactinium, rather boringly.

    Today’s question: apart from eta, what Greek letter is contained in one or more other Greek letters?

  17. 11:13. Not a difficult puzzle, but somehow not permitting a lot of biffing. I found I had to consider the wordplay in pretty much all of the clues. I think for this reason I can’t remember getting so much enjoyment out of such a straightforward puzzle.
    A very agreeable start to the day as I head off for a day in the office for the first time since March.
    Thanks setter!

    Edited at 2020-07-29 07:42 am (UTC)

  18. What a contrast to Wednesday of last week. Although easy, this puzzle is scrupulously fair with some excellent wordplays. A good workout in the nets.
  19. Easy, but somehow more fun than yesterday’s .. what Jim says, perhaps.
    We are having an easy week, according to the Snitch. Glad I’m not blogging tomorrow or Fri 🙂
  20. …but I couldn’t spell BRIER propArly.
    Thanks for explaining DOTED and GENTLE, Pip.
    There were some nicely misleading clues today, I thought, including 23ac, 17d and 19d. COD to USURIOUS.
  21. 44:05
    I’m on my own here, but I thought this one was quite challenging.
    Thanks pip.
  22. To sum up, and this appears to be consistent with what others have said, almost every answer was a write-in, but only once you’d thought about it a bit.

    Aside from DOTED my only other real area of hesitation was HOORAY. Can gunners be troopers so is it OOR or ORA inside a dance? Is the dance a HAY, HOY, HAH or HOH? Not knowing the dance I put in HOORAY with fingers crossed.

      1. Yeah I know that now, I read the blog. They were my musings at the time.
        1. My musings were cleverly spotting Hora, then not being able to fit the rest in.
  23. Like others, I didn’t know the required meaning of DOTED, so went with the worplay with crossed fingers. LABEL was my FOI. Mused idly over 1a, my LOI, wondering whether the dance was a HAY or a HOY and the troopers OR aor RA. Otherwise fairly straightforward, with a bit of thought required throughout. 24:57. Thanks setter and Pip.
  24. In fine fettle – got DOTED from the clue, but not understood. Thanks for the explanation.
  25. Nice puzzle: not excessively difficult, but demanding care. Breaking the habit of a lifetime, I made sure I’d parsed everything and avoided the traps lying in wait for the overly hasty biffer. This time, anyway…
  26. ….and my time suffered. It took me while to justify DOTED and dismiss “dated”. Perhaps I’m half-3D !

    FOI DIGITAL
    LOI ASLEEP
    COD OUT-OF-DATE
    TIME 11:27

  27. After yesterday’s PB, I was on track for another fast solve. 15 minutes got me to the last clue; DOTED took another 10 minutes! I was happy with 25 minutes as a second-best solve time… but I’d put LAPIN instead of LUPIN. Clearly I was thinking of James Lapine, and was thinking of rabbit fur instead of the flower. D’oh!

    Edited at 2020-07-29 11:08 am (UTC)

  28. This was going smoothly until I hit the SE corner where I had a longish pause staring at *e*t*e for both 22d and 28a and nothing suggested itself for either. Gentile is a word I haven’t thought of for quite a while and then I was reminded of the wonderful setting of the Nunc Dimittis that plays over the closing credits of the Alec Guinnesss Tinker Tailor. 17.03
    1. Thank-you for reminding me of that, Olivia. A quintessential bit of English church music beautifully sung here. Even better than the original, I think, which is saying something.

      Edited at 2020-07-29 09:18 pm (UTC)

  29. Today has been fun – the quickie was most enjoyable, as was this. I didn’t find it so easy and had the same issues as others, starting with HOORAY. I wondered whether the RA were troopers, and doubted that hoy was a dance move, so although I got the answer very early on, I didn’t put it in for a while. NHO USURIOUS although it was gettable from wordplay, or DOTED in that sense.

    I stalled at 10a with the wrong sort of square stuck in my mind until my husband looked at the letters and came up with the answer. He didn’t really understand the clue though but liked it once I explained it to him! We’ll get him to join us eventually, I hope. I thought it was a great clue, though. I also really liked STEPLADDER and POLE STAR.

    FOI Label
    LOI Doted
    COD High street
    Time 45 minutes, with 10 minutes spent on 10a and 4d, until rescue, so a DNF I suppose

    Many thanks setter and Pip

  30. Can someone enlighten me as to the significance of SNITCH in this context.
    1. Check the link in the top right. Easier than one of us trying to explain.

      It’s also in the Glossary.

      Edited at 2020-07-29 11:40 am (UTC)

  31. Thanks for parsing Gentle, pip. I liked the Stepladder.
    On 2d, I read it as “of the bypass” – the bypass is the orbital, but being of the bypass wouldn’t be orbitalal or orbitalian, but probably just orbital again.
    I’m surprised that no one else got wrong-footed by Hora for the dance at 1a
  32. 21’43 but threw in ‘briar’ without thinking. I think ‘doted’ is not an adjective Pip but an unlikely past tense usage of an outdated meaning of the verb. I’m surprised not to be a pagan. joekobi
    1. Why can’t DOTED be an adjective here? It is one in dictionaries, as well as a PP.
  33. 17.05 but schoolboy error- maybe not even that good- put in hoorah instead of hooray. Otherwise reasonably happy but I really do have to sort these careless mistakes.
  34. Nice puzzle but having finished my sandwich and with work beckoning I impatiently typed in dated having avoided the brier / briar trap. My third puzzle in a row with one wrong. Hoping for better luck tomorrow. 33min.
  35. but with a 15 min nap in the middle. All very straightforward until DOTED. I did wonder about time-consuming, but now concede that it is the dictionary is time consuming.
  36. About 45 mins with some struggles.

    BRIER is a pipe BRIAR is a bramble but

    DNK 4dn DOTED meaning.

    FOI 20ac SOFA

    LOI 3dn ASLEEP

    COD 14ac STEPLADDDER

    WOD 1ac HOORAY!

  37. 3 minutes faster than my twin and all correct (though to be fair I had fingers crossed for DOTED) makes this a Very Satisfactory Day 😀

    No one else has mentioned it so I’m probably barking up the wrong tree but I “solved” 18 across by thinking it was a cryptic and associating tight/high as both meaning intoxicated. I see now that the “new” would be redundant In that parsing but maybe the clue would work without “new” on that basis? Very nice clue as it is I hasten to add.

    As was the rest of the puzzle for all the reasons mentioned. I do like a smooth surface or two.

    Thanks all

  38. Just over half an hour, so quite easy, but with a few traps requiring close attention to the wordplay (HOORAY, not HOORAH, BRIER and not BRIAR, for example). A pleasant solve with a number of good clues.

    Edited at 2020-07-29 07:04 pm (UTC)

  39. What’s the ‘time-consuming‘ bit in 4d? Surely the ‘t‘ is being consumed, not consuming? Mr Grumpy
  40. That would be ‘time consuming’, not ‘time-consuming’. The hyphen makes it adjectival to be applied to ‘end of Oxford + dictionary’.
    1. I was simply quoting it as the clue is written, as the point I was making is about the insertion or non-insertion of ‘t’. Hyphen or no hyphen, why do we insert the ‘t‘ when there is no instruction to do so, coded or otherwise? I’m obviously missing something. Mr Grumpy
      1. Hence time-consuming D OED. Like e.g. oil-bearing rock. Seems very clear to me.
      2. Or to return to Penfold’s example above:
        MAN-EATING TIGER => TIGER EATING MAN => TIMANGER
        TIME-CONSUMING END OF OXFORD DICTIONARY => [END OF OXFORD DICTIONARY] CONSUMING [TIME] => [D OED] CONSUMING [T] => DOTED

        Edited at 2020-07-29 11:22 pm (UTC)

        1. So ‘end of Oxford dictionary’ is the subject? I see. But even given it’s grammatically correct, it’s not a convincing surface is it? Mr Grumpy
  41. We crossed. Your example explains it better in two words, but I’ll let mine stand.
  43. A palindromic 31:13 for me. Felt a bit sluggish for some reason. Nothing too hard. My best guess for 1ac was hoy around old RA, pleased to come here and find the correct parsing. It took me ages to find Sofia and toss out the one. Didn’t know doted in that sense. I liked plectrum, out-of-date and the ‘accompanying boxing clubs’ bit of witch.

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