Times 27784 – a wordplay tour-de-force

Author   glheardPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic

Time taken: 9:13.  That is just a touch under my average, but this is a tricky puzzle that is right up my alley – there were a large number of answers here that I had to piece together from wordplay, and that is my favourite part of a cryptic crossword, so no problems here.  The wordplay is excellent for a lot of new words to me along with familiar words used in a different context than usual.

If you like puzzles where you need to rely on the wordplay heavily, check the Mephisto in the Sunday Times, which I have the pleasure of blogging the odd-numbered puzzles (vinyl1 has the even ones).

Away we go…

Across
1 Crustaceans manage when facing groups of whales (8)
COPEPODS – COPE(manage) and PODS(groups of whales). Got this from wordplay.
5 Bag is a pain, being left in street (6)
SACHET – ACHE(pain) in ST(street)
8 Queen with fantastic cat, more than once her destroyer of rodents (3-7)
RAT-CATCHER – R(regina, queen), then an anagram of CAT, another anagram of CAT and HER
9 Rhapsodic form of modern music, conclusion for concert (4)
RAPT – RAP(modern “music”) and the last letter of concerT
10 Decorating site for play — this tells theatre folk what to do (5,9)
STAGE DIRECTION – anagram of DECORATING SITE
11 Swimmers used to swim in West? (7)
MEDUSAE – anagram of USED in MAE West
13 In the capacity of hut that has to be knocked down (7)
QUASHED – QUA(in the capacity of), SHED(hut)
15 Quiet diocese in which set of holy books is put forward (7)
PROMOTE – P(quite) and ROME(diocese) containing OT(set of holy books)
18 Failure of young socialite star to seal deal finally (7)
DEBACLE – DEB(young socialite), and ACE(star) containing the last letter of deaL
21 Scientist builds up from this small amount — aims at miscount being corrected (6,4,4)
ATOMIC MASS UNIT – anagram of AIMS,AT,MISCOUNT (not from wordplay, that doctorate in Chemistry comes in handy occasionally)
22 One guided around shop (4)
DELI – I(one), LED(guided) all reversed
23 Unselfish group member: “Pay me later for working” (4,6)
TEAM PLAYER – anagram of PAY,ME,LATER
24 A left-winger kept outside party much admired (6)
ADORED – A, RED(left-winger) outside DO(party)
25 Home with jazzy style given huge architectural feature (8)
INTRADOS – IN(home), TRAD(style of jazz), OS(huge). Got this from wordplay
Down
1 Church has second gentleman turning up for baptismal robe (7)
CHRISOM – CH(church), and then MO(second), SIR(gentleman) all reversed. Another from wordplay.
2 Get rid of cherubic child without father and identity (3,4,2)
PUT PAID TO – the cherubic child is a PUTTO, insert PA(father) and ID(identity)
3 Those putting coats on horses (7)
PLATERS – double definition, though I only knew the first one.  The second is a horse entered into a race.
4 Product on sale just before Christmas maybe to become less successful? (7)
DECLINE – just before Christmas you might put out the DECember LINE
5 Building given criticism — one university must replace (9)
STRUCTURE – STRICTURE(criticism) with I(one) replaced by U(university)
6 Rushes to offer cold rather than hot dishes (7)
CURRIES – HURRIES(rushes) with C(cold) instead of H(hot)
7 Width of river accommodating vessels (7)
EXPANSE – the river EXE containing PANS(vessels)
12 Get to meeting with old rocker disgraced at one time (9)
ATTAINTED – ATTAIN(get to), and TED(old rocker) – got this from wordplay
14 Unoriginal journo with requirement to be heard (9)
HACKNEYED – HACK(journo) and what sounds like NEED(requirement)
16 Wrench restricting one part of body or another (4-3)
REAR-END – REND(wrench) containing EAR(one part of the body) leading to another part of the body
17 Audible sound of farmyard animal close by makes one more dreamy (7)
MOONIER – sounds like MOO NEAR(close by)
18 Driver of cart taking a road north — new girl going that way (7)
DRAYMAN – A, RD(road) all reversed, then N, AMY(girl) all reversed
19 Guy in America, about 50, one rushing around (7)
BUSTLER – BUSTER(Guy in the USA) surrounding L(50)
20 Forces out former leftists after revolution (7)
EXTORTS – EX(former), then TROTS(lefists) reversed, cycled, um what is going on with TROTS? Is the revolution in the middle three letters?

67 comments on “Times 27784 – a wordplay tour-de-force”

  1. It might just be an indirect anagram for trots at 20d – the around bit doesn’t exactly work. I liked Curries, and had to construct both of the sea creatures. Thx, george. Think they put Stage Direction in just for you?
      1. I can’t say I was well pleased to figure that out – I had assumed it was just a reversal too, but then I had to squint a little to equate Extort with force out, so I was checking the wordplay to see if there was another possibility.
  2. I constructed several from wordplay. But I went for PLACERS (I assumed they are horses that place, and I had no idea what kind of coats they put on, but it was at least plausible). STRUCTURE took a time to see what was going on.
  3. I was never getting PLATERS, and I am annoyed that it was EXTORTS after all. C’est la vie. Otherwise I thought a fairly easy puzzle. 23 minutes or so to get down to all but PLATERS and ATTAINTED. I got ATTAINTED fairly quickly but after 20 minutes of seeing whether I could safely answer 3 down, I gave up.

    I was unsure of EXTORTS (still am) and DECLINE.

    I guessed COPE + PODS from the very beginning but COPEPODS didn’t sound like a thing so I assumed there was some other synonym of ‘manage’ I was missing.

    1. Exactly the same here but I did leave extorts in having rubbed it out twice. Cheated and looked up copepods. There are zillions of them and they are vitally important to our environment, so I wonder how I NHO.
      Andyf
      1. All humans are oblivious to nature. All …
        eg: if no wasps, then no people
  4. Loath to enter LOI extorts for the same reason. Indirect anagram? Incomplete clue? Also didn’t know the horse, needed an alphabet trawl and a lucky guess, but otherwise a brilliant, testing crossword.
  5. I did most of this waiting to see the doctor, so I have no time, but it took time. I imagine Vinyl is right about EXTORTS. Finally got to PLATERS after a desultory alphabet trawl; fortunately, although it’s not in ODE, it is in my English-Japanese dictionary (yes, I checked before submitting). DNK CHRISOM, INTRADOS,PLATERS, REND=wrench, ATOMIC MASS UNIT. Mephistophelean puzzle, all right.
  6. 54 minutes with too many unknown or only half-remembered words to be enjoyable,

    I also assumed a cock-up at 20dn. We’ve had the TORT part of EXTORT clued similarly before e.g. ‘turning red’ in 2017, and ‘leftist returned’ 2018, and I suspect the setter, perhaps in haste, didn’t notice that it doesn’t quite work in the plural.

    Also I’m not entirely convinced that RAPT and RHAPSODIC are interchangeable.

    Like Paul, I went for PLACERS at 3dn rather in desperation as my LOI having previously wasted a lot of time trying to make something out of ‘painters’ (those putting on coats) and ‘paints’ (horses) neither of which fitted the spaces available in the grid.

  7. I was clearly well off the wavelength for this one given the SNITCH rates it as easy. I was particularly held up by MEDUSAE, QUASHED and PLATERS. For QUASHED I spent ages thinking that no word I’ve ever seen fitted _U_SHED forgetting to try a Q before a U. PLATERS could easily have ended up being players (those putting being golfers) or placers (to put = to place) but I just managed to come up with the right answer before submitting.
  8. Similar experience to Monday’s tough one—I gave up after fifty minutes. Couldn’t think of ATTAIN for “get to” and didn’t know ATTAINTED, plus I’d thought of EXTORTS about a hundred times for 20d but couldn’t justify it. Bah.
  9. …Of bald Medusa…
    25 mins just left the NHO Attainted and after constructing Copepods, Chrisom and Intrados, I couldn’t be bothered.
    Now I feel attainted.
    Thanks setter and G.
  10. 19 minutes which would have been a couple of minutes faster if I hadn’t been scratching my head with everyone else about EXTORTS. LOI ATTAINTED, with my customary complaint that Teds and Rockers had the best part of a decade between them. DNK COPEPODS but the instructions left no doubt. I thought of PLATERS quickly with crossers. ATOMIC MASS UNIT is also familiar to Physicists. COD to RATCATCHER. Thank you George and setter.
  11. I finished but this is not my sort of crossword. Wooden. Charmless. Obscure.
  12. Strange beast, certainly Mephisto-ish in places. I took 20 minutes, but that’s because I knew PLATERS (probably from Mephisto), didn’t notice the STORT anomaly, and recognised INTRADOS (with a nod to Poe’s INTRA MUNDOS device in A Princess of Mars), even to the extent of correcting a misplaced O in the middle just before submitting.
    It’s not often we get an “obsolete” word in this one, but ATTAINTED at least looks likely, which COPEPODS doesn’t and neither does CHRISOM with that extraneous O.
    I’m not complaining: it’s quite fun working out the obscurities from the wordplay, but I can well see that others might.

    I think I’ll save the MCS for later.

    Edited at 2020-10-01 08:17 am (UTC)

  13. 13:30. Come on editor, get a grip. This is the daily puzzle, not Mephisto. We all like constructing tricky words from wordplay but ATTAINTED, seriously? COPEPODS, MEDUSAE, INTRADOS, CHRISOM, PLATERS, DRAYMAN… you can have too much of a good thing.
    PLATERS is impossible to solve with confidence unless you happen to know an obscure horse racing term (I looked it up), the wordplay for another obscurity (CHRISOM) is ambiguous and EXTORTS is wrong.
    Must try harder.

    Edited at 2020-10-01 07:33 am (UTC)

  14. I am with Sawbill on this – a bit tedious and contrived. No fun moments. Went with CERISOM over CHRISOM…
  15. 16:37. Like others I puzzled over EXTORTS, concluding it was an indirect anagram, but aren’t they verboten?. COPEPODS and INTRADOS were both unknown and constructed from wordplay. LOI BUSTLER. I liked TEAM PLAYER best.
  16. But with HACKNEYYD – must check better.

    Last two were the crustacean (NHO) and the horse (I think a plate is a type of race and presumably PLATERS are the horses entered into it).

  17. A puzzle with some tricky words
    Appealing to linguistic nerds
    I rather liked CURRIES
    PLATERS caused worries
    But a least there weren’t any birds
  18. My online dictionary has « PLACER » a person or animal that is among the winners of a race or contest! So someone putting is a PLACER, and a horse coming third, say, could be a PLACER too. OK, what the coat was doing I don’t know. So technically a DNF after 43mins. Like others, NHO COPEPODS, CHRISOM, or INTRADOS, but the wordplay was fair in each case. Also some head scratching at 20d. Thanks G for the explanations. No idea how you do this in 9mins. Félicitations.
  19. Same as everyone else with the obscurities, got from wordplay. Have used the word CHRISOM many times without seeing it written down. PLATERS a guess.

    Thanks george and setter, 18’05”.

  20. Defeated by PLATERS. I put PLAYERS on the grounds that “those putting coats on” could be LAYERS but had no idea what the P was doing.
    Didn’t even see the anomaly in EXTORTS.
    We had some very unusual words yesterday. I got most of today’s from wordplay (except PLATERS, of course) I hope Friday’s doesn’t continue the trend but only more so.
  21. Just above my new average, for a just easier than average puzzle. NHO COPEPODS, PLATERS (LOI), not sure REAR-END is hyphenated when it means backside, or of the treatment of TROTS in EXTORTS. Hmm.

    COD: CURRIES, appearing cold, actually hot!

    Yesterday’s answer: the district of Eden is in Cumbria, a long way from the Eden Project.

    Today’s question: which London borough other than Hackney can be used as a verb?

        1. If you have that one, then surely
          Royal innkeeper, daft as a dog (7)
          would count?
          Andyf
  22. But with one mistake! Placers. Those putting, yeah? Don’t ask about the coats on horses! Also confused about the Trots. Had the missus in background listening to a very loud zoom conference – which put me off rather. That’s my excuse anyway!
  23. I only know PLATERS from crossword puzzles, so it can’t be that obscure. FOI EXTORTS, without noticing the oversight. Some rarities, as noted, but all generously clued, I felt, in a helpful grid – four 7-letter lights with only two unches.
  24. Slightly dispiriting that SNITCH has this as on the marginally easier side as I struggled with the same unknown words as many of the others here. A few more words to add to the “Words you only see in crosswords” List – INTRADOS, CHRISOM, COPEPODS, MEDUSAE.

    Got as far as I was going to get in about half an hour.

    Thanks George

  25. Platers refers to horses which run in ‘Selling’ Races, ie those races in which in which the winner was put up for sale by auction immediately after the race has been run.

    These races were known as ‘Selling Plates” and the horses which run in them as ‘Selling Platers’ which was commonly shortened to ‘Platers’.

    Much less common now than they used to be when they were often targeted for huge gamblers due to to the generally poor quality of the runners, with the proceeds of the gamble often used by the original connections to buy their own horse back at the auction while still leaving plenty of profit.

  26. Gave up on platers though should have got the more obvious link therein. Otherwise about 25 minutes. When one’s stuck like that one sees one after another fiend across the globe effortlessly engaged and finishing. ‘Attainted’ is old but scarcely an archaism – seems OK to me. As the rest, with ‘after revolution’ in 20 signalling merely a mix-up for once. Had to switch ‘unit’ and ‘mass’ round a bit.
    1. You’re right Joekobi. A bill of attainder was something British monarchs in former times used to slap on their enemies. They were so notorious for their misuse that they were specifically prohibited by the US Founding Fathers.

      Edited at 2020-10-01 10:54 am (UTC)

      1. To be fair attainder and attaint are quite different concepts. Attainder is the removal of all your assets in the direction of the crown. Nowadays we call it the Inland Revenue and pretend it is somehow legal. Attainted is what those who work for the Inland revenue should be
  27. For some reason this didn’t give me any particular trouble although I had the same DNKs as others. I simply DNN (did not notice) the anomaly with TROTS. I had a gambler uncle who horrified my mother when she found out he’d been teaching me the ins and outs of horse-racing. He just said – well at least it wasn’t greyhounds. 17.32
  28. As others, found this a touch too contrived, trusting to word play on some unknowns such as COPEPODS, INTRADOS, ATTAINTED. Managed all except MEDUSAE in half an hour but was too bored to go on thinking, watching tennis. A bit MERred by the TROTS error, and don’t understand REAR-END – rend = wrench? Still, better than an easy one I suppose.
    1. I didn’t know rend=wrench either, and rightly so; as I found out later, ODE marks this meaning as archaic.
        1. I don’t think I’ve ever analyzed the word, but I imagine that if I did, I would have thought it meant tearing not wrenching.
  29. …irritating pink for STRICTURES – well the I is next to the U and phone keyboards are stupidly small…
  30. Another PLACERS.

    Those putting = placers

    Coats on horses – How am I supposed to know what those blankety things are called, if indeed they aren’t just called blankets? I don’t know my fetlock from my wither.

  31. Took me ages, with 4 new words – same ones as others – and a long, long time spent on my LOI, PLATERS, for which (again like others) I considered ‘placers’ and my first thought ‘players’, with ‘Those putting’ = ‘”Those playing golf”. I rejected this mainly because TEAM PLAYER appeared later on, so luck on my side. At least the other unknowns were helped by wordplay, even if COPEPODS was an unlikely looking word. I did spot what I agree was a boo-boo for EXTORTS – if so, very un-Times like.

    To be frank, more a feeling of relief that all was in correctly, rather than enjoyment and satisfaction at the end.

  32. failed on the horses, had PLACER instead of NHO plater. Well, those who put are placers and PACERS are horses and the L might……work somehow?
    To compound the error, recognising bill of ATTAINDER as something used by Henry VIII ( thank you Hilary Mantel), I put it in instead of ATTAINTED, without realising it wrecked both ADORED and TEAM PLAYER. A good month ruined.
  33. NHO COPEPODS, or ATOMIC MASS UNIT, while REAR END has to be a contender for the “Poorest Clue of the Year” Award – but only if we eliminate dodgy homophones from the candidates. “Hack need” really is stretching it too far.

    All of which almost makes EXTORTS a half-decent answer.

    If it wasn’t for the need to avoid a hat trick of DNF’s I wouldn’t have bothered grinding my teeth and battling to a successful conclusion – albeit a very unsatisfying one.

    FOI “PODS”
    REAL FOI SACHET
    LOI ATTAINTED
    COD DECLINE
    TIME 14:11

    Edited at 2020-10-01 01:16 pm (UTC)

  34. Looking at the Rosetta Stone in the British Museum this morning with no one in front of me should have provided the key to this. I did get COPEPODS, CHRISOM and INTRADOS.
    But I fell a few short (Attainted,Platers etc).
    A pint of Abbot Ale afterwards meant I never noticed the problem with Extorts.
    David
  35. Had COPEPODS early but didn’t believe it could be a word. Wouldn’t have helped because PLATERS LOI could have been anything. A bit like ‘one putting’, a good solve spoilt.
  36. Time c. 45 mins.

    FOI CHRISOM

    SOI COPEPODS Geology A level comes in handy

    LOI 5ac SACHET – used to read the news

    COD 6dn CURRIES

    WOD 18dn DRAYMAN as was my father’s father

    White Wabbits etc.

  37. Enjoyed this probably because I finished correctly, as I’d a couple of DNFs this week already. Worked for an eng co where plenty of the products were plated, Olive Drab for military, Passivated for medical etc. NHO COPEPODS, they should be ATTAINTED (my LOI) for their shellfish behaviour.
  38. There is a type of horse race called a selling plate, where horses are entered with the intention of the winner being sold. Horses entered for these types of races are known as platers
  39. 32:41. A workmanlike solve of a knotty puzzle. Got copepods, intrados and chrisom from wp. I assumed the clue for extorts contained an error. My LOI was platers, DNK the horse bit of the Double Definition. Entered platers after careful pondering of the alternatives offered up by an alpha-trawl and just persuaded by the coats bit to select it over players.
  40. I gave up with one answer missing – QUASHED. It would never have come to me, firstly because I was not aware of ‘qua’ meaning ‘in the capacity of, but also because I always struggle with clues that contain a synonym word or phrase that is only approximate in meaning to the answer – I’m not buying “knocked down” as anything like an alternative for “quashed” – but then I guess sheds/huts can’t really be rejected or suppressed; poor clue I thought, and that’s not just sour grapes.
    1. Just extending my comment above… What is the issue with EXTORTS, I can’t see any problem with the clue at all?
      1. EX (former), TROTS (leftists). ‘After revolution’ indicates reversal, but that spells EXSTORT not EXTORTS.
        1. I’m not a regular crossword doer, so I’m not aware of all the cluing conventions (if I were, I would probably complete more of them than I do), so I didn’t interpret “after revolution” as reversal, simply that there was some upheaval, i.e. rearrangement of the letters.
          1. Yes some of the rules or conventions may seem a bit strange to those who don’t solve regularly. Your interpretation would be an ‘indirect’ anagram and they’re not allowed, at least in The Times.
  41. Didn’t get around to this puzzle until quite late tonight, but made reasonable progress with it, starting with ___PODS, CHRISOM(NHO, I constructed it and went with CH rather than CE because I knew of Chrism, the Confirmation oil) and MEDUSAE(knew the jellyfish after I’d constructed it). Could hardly believe COPEPODS, but it fitted the wordplay and the checkers, so I shrugged and moved on. Didn’t notice the problem with EXTORTS. ATTAINTED rang a faint bell. I was eventually left with 3d, where I decided it had to PLATER, but looked it up to confirm the second meaning. 25:46. Thanks setter and George.
    On edit, I don’t really see a problem with EXTORTS if you consider revolution as turmoil, in which case it’s a valid anagram indicator.

    Edited at 2020-10-01 11:06 pm (UTC)

  42. nearly an hour, but more like half an hour for everything but PLATERS, which I didn’t dare bung in, so I paused and watched two hours of television instead. After that, I did dare bung in PLATERS, not being able to think of anything else that might fit, and see there, it was right. (PLACERS would have fit the putting, but coatless, and for a while I thought it might even be a golfing term. All of this rather annoying.)

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