Times 27820 – brush up on your philosophy

Author   glheardPosted on Categories Daily Cryptic

Time taken: 15:12, but with one silly typo in 8 down, so a pink square of doom.

I struggled with this, and I am a little miffed at the setter for clueing the name of a philosopher I can barely spell on a good day as a partial anagram. I had all manner of letter combinations in there before the checking letters sorted it out.  I am just back from a socially-distanced improv show, and trying to do comedy wearing a face mask and a lavolier microphone to an audience all sitting six feet apart is a really interesting experience. I am doing a second show next week, so hopefully practice makes perfect.

Away we go…

Across
1 Like a cat, black and suffering from fleas? (6)
BITCHY – B(black), ITCHY(suffering from fleas)
4 Energy drink first, then grub cooked for one not responding to treatment (8)
SUPERBUG – E(energy) with SUP(drink) coming first, then an anagram of GRUB
9 Opposing military commander isn’t bad (7)
AGAINST – AGA(military commander), then an anagram of ISN’T
11 Stretcher brought when fashion designer clutches muscle (7)
DILATOR – Christian DIOR(fashion designer) with LAT(muscle) inside
12 Eccentric family okay occasionally (5)
KINKY – KIN(family) then alternating letters in oKaY
13 Say nothing a sort of professor holds outrageous (9)
EGREGIOUS – EG(say) then O(nothing) inside a REGIUS professor. I always associate REGIUS professor with John Henslow who recommended young Charles Darwin as a naturalist to Fitzroy on the Beagle
14 On page record name in passport for sucker (10)
PEPPERMINT –  P(page), EP(record) then N(name) in PERMIT(passport)
16 Low river in high ground (4)
MOOR – MOO(low) then R(river)
19 Get together in turn and be in large numbers (4)
TEEM – MEET(get together) reversed
20 Girl’s relative almost died alone (10)
UNASSISTED – UNA’S (girl’s) then SISTER(relative) missing the last letter, D(died)
22 Final character in set troubled revolutionary philosopher (9)
NIETZSCHE –  Z(final character) in an anagram of IN,SET, then CHE(revolutionary)
23 Smacks on the wrist? (5)
CUFFS – double definition, as cuffs would be worn on the wrist
25 Sneering expression at this point on drunk (2,5)
SO THERE – HERE(at this point) with SOT(drunk)
26 Sort of knot judge has to work round (7)
TREFOIL –  REF(judge) inside TOIL(work) – a knot in heraldry
27 Ridiculous day your old dad returned (8)
DERISORY – D(day), then a reversal of YR(your), O(old), SIRE(dad)
28 Inferior male one avoids without trouble (6)
MEASLY –  M(male) then remove I(one) from EASILY(without trouble)
Down
1 Refuses to touch vessel in dangerous position (5,4)
BLACK SPOT – BLACKS(refuses to touch, boycotts) then POT(vessel)
2 Writer’s counterpart receiving top mark (5)
TWAIN – TWIN(counterpart) containing A(top mark)
3 Don’t you get married, shortly husband will be up for something sticky (8)
HONEYDEW – Don’t you get married could be WED YE NOT – remove the last letter. Then H(husband) all reversed
5 In the way as very young son announced achievement (5,4,4)
UNDER ONES FEET – very young could be UNDER ONE, then S(son) and sounds like FEAT(achievement)
6 Speech extolling a group we’ve left? (6)
EULOGY – cryptic definition
7 Halt decline: get this to moon (6,3)
BOTTOM OUT – double definition, with moom meaning drop trou
8 A convolution of brain surgery ordered without hesitation (5)
GYRUS – anagram of SURGERY minus ER(hesitation)
10 Sort of explosion shattered column in the back (13)
THERMONUCLEAR – anagram of COLUMN in THE, REAR(back)
15 I introduce quietly aggrieved person (9)
PRESENTER – P(quiety), RESENTER(aggrieved person)
17 Get back up from police in cup-tie (9)
REDISPLAY – DI’S(police) in REPLAY(cup-tie)
18 Separate set cried to be put together (8)
DISCRETE – anagram of SET,CRIED
21 Old people as outspoken investigators (6)
AZTECS – sounds like AS TECHS(investigators)
22 Moved slowly in Lourdes, only standing up a little (5)
NOSED – hidden reversed in lourDES ONly
24 Waste silk, following damage (5)
FLOSS – F(following), LOSS(damage)

63 comments on “Times 27820 – brush up on your philosophy”

  1. This was a toughie for me, misparsing all over the place. I started with B+EATEN, and it didn’t get better from there. After 20 minutes I only had a handful of clues. But gradually I cracked things open and managed to finish.
  2. I found the RH much more difficult than the LH so with more than half the grid completed after about 20 minutes I felt I might finish not too far off my target half-hour. In the end I needed 52 minutes.

    I loved the cheek of 1ac using a feline reference to define a canine one which of course works perfectly, figuratively speaking.

    DK GYRUS, but the wordplay and checkers got me there.

    I’m afraid I still don’t fully understand 6dn.

    I only know HONEYDEW as a type of melon so finding out today what it actually is came as news to me.

    1. I don’t really understand 6dn either but I think it’s something to do with the EU.
      1. Yes. I didn’t get it even when isla3 suggested the EU connection, but when ‘anon’ (below) mentioned the word ‘pun’ it clicked right away. An ‘E-U-LOGY’ might be a speech extolling the group we (the UK) have left. This may well be what George had spotted when he classified the clue as ‘cryptic’ but wasn’t explicit about.
  3. I, too, took a few attempts to spell Nietzsche correctly. Stumped by eulogy, couldn’t see how it worked. Was thinking maybe we (UK) left EU, but logy was unaccounted for. As a CD I still don’t really see it – which group? Are the Aztecs made from Tecs, short for detectives, remembered from old puzzles populated by Beerbohm Tree and countless grazing antelopes?
  4. I had no problem spelling Nietzsche but I did have a problem spelling DISCRETE. I can never remember with that and discreet which is which. This didn’t help finishing off that corner where my last two, FLOSS and MEASLY took about 10 minutes to find. Having finally got them, my COD goes to MEASLY. It’s a very neat surface and decidedly tricky to parse to my mind.
  5. With KINKY my FOI and GYRUS my 2d, I was expecting a long slog, but somehow I picked up the pace. I could have been quicker, though, if I’d given up sooner on PROTESTOR at 15d and LESSER at 28ac. Never figured out EULOGY. REDISPLAY was my LOI, largely because I didn’t know what a cup-tie was. Is SO THERE a sneering expression?

    Edited at 2020-11-12 07:06 am (UTC)

  7. Another one who is still puzzled by EULOGY, although it had to be that.
    Thanks for explaining HONEYDEW, George.
    I have never heard of TREFOIL as a knot so thanks for saying it’s from heraldry.
    Many good clues but I liked UNDER ONES FEET best.
    1. From wiktionary:
      trefoil knot (plural trefoil knots)
      (topology) A knot formed by joining the two loose ends of a overhand knot to form a knotted loop; the simplest non-trivial knot.
      Andyf
  8. I only knew HONEYDEW as a melon and they didn’t seem to be especially sticky. I think AZTECS are “as outspoken” for AZ and TECS short for detectives. I came here to find out how EULOGY worked since I was looking for a word to take WE out of. Didn’t know GYRUS but that’s about the only arrangement of letters that is plausble.
  9. I know REGIUS from Douglas Adams, who used a character known as Reg a couple of times. “Reg” himself was so old that he’d forgotten his real name, still being in the post of Regius Professor of Chronology at Cambridge since appointed by King George…

    Anyway. Pushed a couple of minutes over half an hour by the NW and SE corners of this one, with a mostly-biffed HONEYDEW last in. Serendipitously I’ve recently been reading Thus Spoke Zarathustra and shoved in a correctly-spelled NIETZSCHE as soon as I worked out who was needed.

  10. …And close your eyes with holy dread
    For he on honey-dew hath fed,
    And drunk the milk of Paradise.

    33 mins pre-brekker, held up at the end by Honey-e- and the tricky wordplay.
    Liked Bottom Out, didn’t like Eulogy.
    Thanks setter and G.

  11. …I’m not. 40 minutes, with LOI TREFOIL, known to me as the organisation of former girl guides my late mother was a member of. I found this particularly tough on the RHS with EULOGY a straight biff. I was held up on EGREGIOUS by trying to make the professor an emeritus one rather than regius. COD to UNDER ONES FEET for the smile in what was otherwise a worthy rather than relaxing offering. Thank you George and setter
  12. 12:45. I worked steadily through this without any real hold-ups.
    I’m always surprised by how many letters there are in NIETZSCHE and never quite sure where to put the Z so I was grateful for the checking letter.
    NHO GYRUS.
    Puzzled by the EU-logy (assuming that’s what’s intended) like everyone else.
  13. I found this unremittingly hard, especially the intractable SE corner as others have said. Is get back up really a synonym for the concocted word REDISPLAY, which I have never encountered or heard anyone use? I agree that EULOGY does not work, though I see what the setter was getting at now. My pink square was in BLANK SPOT which is defensible (to blank someone) albeit less dangerous than a BLACK SPOT, particularly if one is a pirate.
  14. Well i got to the end UNASSISTED
    T’was a MEASLY display; quite ham-fisted
    But I could spell NIETZSCHE
    SO THERE was a bright feature
    And who knew a GYRUS existed?
  15. Did all the hard work – including spelling the philosopher right before getting the ancient race – but spoilt it with a careless “BLANK SPOT” at 1d.

    Doh.

  16. 18:18. Like others NHO GYRUS. I look forward to seeing its partner SULCUS soon now I’ve read about them. DNK FLOSS = waste silk either. Like George, I didn’t know how to spell NIETZSCHE until the AZTECs came along to help. I liked 6D.
  17. Hard today I thought. Just over the hour. G, I read 22ac as zinset as the anagram as there is nothing to suggest putting the Z « in» the anag of in set. NHO GYRUS and, like others, still can’t fathom EULOGY. LOIs were CUFFS and FLOSS which took me an age to see. In fact the whole rhs took over 40 mins of my time. Also could not work out why a cup-tie should be replay? A cup-tie could be replayed, but a replay is not a cup-tie. Anyway, thanks G as ever and setter.

    1. Zinset: I agree.
      Replay/cup-tie: also agree, the clue needs a question mark really.
    2. There’s nothing to suggest the z isn’t part of the anagrist along with in set.
      1. There is, in George’s parsing of the clue, which is what RdP is responding to.
    4. I think I disagree on that one. You wouldn’t replay a league game or friendly so I think that only leaves cup-ties.
          1. A replay is a type of cup-tie, so I reckon you can clue replay as “cup-tie” but cup-tie would need to be something like “replay, perhaps” as not all cup ties are replays.
      2. I don’t know anything about football but my objection was that ‘replay’ doesn’t necessarily even refer to a sporting event. On reflection though the other meaning (as in ‘action replay’) is arguably completely distinct, rather than a different example of the same one. Replay is to cup-tie/recording as orange is to colour/fruit.
        1. >Replay is to cup-tie/recording as orange is to colour/fruit.

          Exactly. Colour or fruit (with no DBE indication) would be fine definitions for orange, so cup-tie or recording could be just as valid for replay.

  18. HONEYDEW held me up at the end. I knew GYRUS ( and SULCUS).

    A haiku for astro_nowt:

    Astro_nowt bemoans
    List ten thousand bird species
    Rue a lack of space?

  19. Slower than average for a harder than average puzzle. Got the S and Z of NIETZSCHE the wrong way round at first, which didn’t help with AZTECS. NHO GYRUS, don’t understand EULOGY.

    COD: BOTTOM OUT, lol, I liked PEPPERMINT too

    Yesterday’s answer: the world’s largest desert is Antarctica, according to Wikipedia.

    Today’s question: egregious means standing out from the herd (grex being herd) – what word also comes from grex and means liking the company of others?

  20. I came across this definition for HONEYDEW post solve: “late 19th century slang for the muck, or raw sewage, in a cesspool. Late Victorian euphemism.” It wouldn’t surprise me too much is a setter who already had BITCHY, KINKY and BOTTOM OUT didn’t have that in mind. Cf honey bucket.

    I ground to a complete halt in the bottom right, too flummoxed to get the easy and helpful CUFFS. My Chambers doesn’t have anything between rediscovery and redissolution, it turns out, but other sources do. I just didn’t think of REPLAY for cup-tie. MEASLY was my last in, having tried for ages to get LESSER to work. It doesn’t.

    I smudged EULOGY as a speech given to a group from which we (or someone else) are/is dearly departed, but that doesn’t work either. Too clever a clue for its own good.

    32.40 if you really must know.

    Edited at 2020-11-12 09:22 am (UTC)

  21. Me too can never remember how to spell the philosopher, but I guessed right for a z crosser. There aren’t enough ‘in’s in the clue for it to be ‘z’ in an anagram of ‘in’ and ‘set’ (plus che). So it’s an anagram of z, in and set. Nerdy detail, sorry.
  22. Similar experience to pootle. About 14 mins on all but two. Floss and Measly.

    COD: Measly.

  23. 22.13 but one wrong. NHO gyrus so opted for germs- I know pretty lame- but encouraged by thinking hesitation was within the answer. If it is gER-s didn’t seem to be any other option. I now know what gyrus means so will be well equipped for the next time it comes up, if I live that long!

    Really good puzzle. COD bottom out by a mile. FOI bitchy, LOI the wrong answer.

  24. Obviously found this very simpatico, even the bits which I didn’t entirely understand: GYRUS and FLOSS were educated guesses which seemed to make perfect sense, so even though I wasn’t certain about them, I was happy to submit; and EULOGY seems to be one of those “Look, I know it doesn’t bear intense scrutiny but you get the gist, let’s just move on” clues. More common in other papers than the Times, I’d have thought. Anyway, I still enjoyed this.

    And my favourite Nietzsche quote isn’t actually from Nietzsche, of course, but from Blazing Saddles…

  25. I’m with the others on replay being only sometimes related to a cup-tie; I’d probably think it was a clever refernce if I’d thought of it a little more quickly. Anagrams of two unusual words didn’t help my time. I liked Bottom Out, have never heard of a difficult position being a Black Spot, and still see only the loose connection for EU-logy. Thanks, george
  26. After doing all the hard work, I tripped over and fell on my BUTT(on)OUT. Drat! 41:13 WOE. Thanks setter and George.
  27. and never the twain shall get together in turn. Rather liked this one with the exception of the eulogy clue which fails to make for a dovetail joint. The brain convolution took its time. 29’06.
  28. Happy to join the club on EULOGY. This one certainly needed some mental gyrations and felt longer than the 22.07 I took.
  29. Curiously I left the easiest bit till last, so having only half done after 30 mins was quite pleased. Never thought of PEPPERMINT as a sucker or even a passport as a permit, so that was what really held me up. EGREGIOUS is a curious word which used to mean outstandingly good.
    Liked HONEYDEW when I eventually got it.
  30. DNF, I just couldn’t see AZTECS and even failed after resorting to aids. Chambers uses the word in its definition for AZTEC – of the Aztecs or their language, but when searching for ?Z?E?S refuses to find a corresponding match. I feel stupid for not thinking of the answer myself! Like others, NHO GYRUS, struggled with REDISPLAY, FLOSS, MEASLY, and never understood EULOGY. A very poor day.
  31. Enjoyed that. especially the mooning and not getting wed.

    I got the letter order in Nietzsche right first time, so well done me.

  32. Took ages to get into this, not on the wavelength. I did spell NIETZSCHE right only because I had the Z in as a crosser first. Had to guess a few as DK LAT, GYRUS, and TREFOIL as a knot. Or FLOSS as silk. Time off the scale. EU LOGY was one that doesn’t quite work, IMO.
  33. On the wavelength today after several recent errors, even though I wasn’t sure of FLOSS and had never heard of GYRUS. Put me down as another who couldn’t spell the philosopher without the AZTEC.

    DERISORY was my LOI in 7m 14s. A bit of biffing, including that one and THERMONUCLEAR.

    Like most others, I didn’t think EULOGY worked.

  34. Biffed UNDER ONES FEET without parsing. Similar bamboozlement over EULOGY.

    Don’t quite see MEASLY = Inferior. More like DERISORY imho.

    LOI FLOSS – didn’t know the this definition, bunged it in and hoped for the best.

  35. Yes but ‘River in Africa’ is not synonymous with ‘Nile’, yet ‘River in Africa’ could perfectly well clue ‘Nile’. Isn’t it a matter of what is included in what category?
  36. Am I the only one of the community with no problem at 6dn!? A lot of over-thinking on this clue, and 17dn RE-DIS-PLAY. They are what they are. REPLAY is the first thing one thinks of when Boston United are drawn away to Arsenal in the 3rd round of the FA Cup.

    FOI 1ac BITCHY dear me!

    LOI 8dn GYRUS dear me!

    COD 7dn BOTTOM OUT me dear!

    WOD 28ac MEASLY for some reason.

    Time: Ages

    Song of the day – Barr-Barr Black Shirt

  38. ….but which turned out not to be “blousy”. NHO GYRUS. Didn’t like EULOGY.

    FOI (correctly !) BLACK SPOT
    LOI HONEYDEW
    COD BOTTOM OUT
    TIME 16:05

  39. 62 mins with Aztecs the last to fall. Penny dropped when I realised it was “as” I had to homophonize (is that a word?). Very cunning. Also couldn’t see beyond elderly rather than ancient for old. I persevered because I’ve now completed four fully correct puzzles with no aids so am hoping for a clean sweep tomorrow. Not as rare as hen’s teeth but not far off. Thanks setter and George
  40. Fairly easy, just under 39 minutes. The first three or four went in right away and then things got a bit slower, but no real problems until the very end (REDISPLAY, FLOSS, then MEASLY, the latter after thinking of MENIAL and LESSER earlier on, but of course they didn’t work). No problem with EULOGY, but it obviously was not going to be much more than a very bad pun (of the type with which I often annoy my children). I of course never heard of GYRUS either, but given the letters and with a meaning of convolution it could only be that. The DISCRETE spelling was no problem because it has a mathematical meaning. NIETZSCHE no problem because I live in Germany. COD to THERMONUCLEAR for the wonderful anagram of COLUMN in it and the rest of the wordplay.

    Edited at 2020-11-12 06:49 pm (UTC)

  41. Confidently biffed ANTIGEN for 9a, which made the NW corner trickier than it should have been. I’m also one who struggles to remember which discrete is which and also spent too long trying to get EMERITUS into 13a.
    Good puzzle. Enjoyed it.
  42. 34:49. This required no little thought to put it away, enjoyably chewy. Ending up with LOIs cuffs and floss.

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