Times Quick Cryptic No 1643 by Teazel

Author   therotterPosted on Categories Quick Cryptic
I took 17 minutes including a distraction, so I think that this is just at the tougher end of the Rotterometer.  There are a couple of new or unfamiliar devices to grapple with from Teazel that might stretch some of our newer solvers, although I think all of the clues are fair, and the answers are all fairly common and require little General Knowledge.  The exception for me was ‘bish’ which was new to me in the sense used.  I’ve only come across it in the British idiomatic expression of ‘bish, bash, bosh’ which I’ve always taken to mean ‘completed efficiently’.

Thanks Teazel, for a slightly different flavour of puzzle.  Please let me know how the rest of you found this.

Across

1  Unreasonable custom husband omitted a lot (1,3,4)
A BIT MUCH – {h}ABIT (custom, husband omitted) and MUCH (a lot).  When something is said to be A BIT MUCH, it is excessive, unreasonable.
6  City is in Pennsylvania?  Yes and no (4)
PISA –PISA (Italy) is nowhere near Pennsylvania (USA), hence No in answer to the question in the clue.  However, IS (is) is inside PA (Pennsylvania) in the name PISA, hence the Yes!
8 Prime minister’s dismal horse (4)
GREY – Is this a triple definition?  Charles GREY (2nd Lord Grey) was PM from 1830 to 1834.  GREY can mean dismal when applied to the weather for instance, and a GREY can be a type of horse.
9  Not develop much scorn (8)
BELITTLE – Unlike my overgrown wisteria, which needs a haircut almost as much as I do!  If one doesn’t develop much, one may be considered to BE LITTLE.
10  Make a request and invite trouble (3,3,2)
ASK FOR IT – Double definition.
12 Welshman working we must interrupt (4)
OWEN – ON (working) interrupted by WE.  OWEN is recognised as a Welsh name, but isn’t exclusively so I don’t believe, either as a first or family name.
13  Grab tin at church (6)
SNATCH – SN (chemical symbol for tin, from stannum) with AT (at) and CH{urch}.
16  I tarry in resort: that’s not seen often (6)
RARITY – Anagram (resort (as in shuffle rather than spa)) of [I TARRY].
17  Bow made of wood, initially pound off (4)
ARCH – The wood is {l}ARCH after dropping the initial letter (L = pound off).
18  Worthless blunder set in stone (8)
RUBBISHY – This one nearly caught me out as I was unfamiliar with BISH to mean blunder.  It is BISH inside (set in) RUBY (stone).
21  Job for tradesman desperately keen to secure one (8)
PAINTING – This came easily to mind as I have just had the painters in myself.  PANTING (desperately keen) securing I (one).
22  Native American bird (4)
CROW – Double definition, the first referring to the federally recognised CROW Tribe of Montana, a Plains tribe who speak their own CROW language.
23  Used to be a sort of wolf? (4)
WERE – double definition.
24  Illumination breaking down halts gig (8)
GASLIGHT – Anagram (breaking down) of [HALTS GIG]

Down

2  Stores right to break embargoes (5)
BARNS – BANS (embargoes) containing (broken by) R{ight}.
3  It flows, steady at intervals (3)
TAY – Alternate letters (at intervals) of {s}T{e}A{d}Y.  The cryptic definition probably refers to the river at Perth, Scotland, although there are plenty of other candidates, including in Canada.
4  Estuary, except the mouth, is brown (5)
UMBER – Referring to the {h}UMBER estuary, but dropping the first letter (except the mouth).  I don’t remember seeing this device to drop a letter before, so it may catch out some.
5  Army extremely eager to secure large place for gun (7)
HOLSTER – HOST (army) and E{age}R (extremely – first and last letters) containing (to secure) L{arge}.
6  Scented mixture is up to prior to arrange (9)
POTPOURRI – Anagram (to arrange) of [UP TO PRIOR].
7  Able to pay as novel is damaged in street (7)
SOLVENT – Anagram (is damaged) of [NOVEL] inside ST{reet}.
11  Precious little possibility of putting on weight  (3,6)
FAT CHANCE – Cryptic definition.  A FAT CHANCE is an ironic slang term for precious little or no chance!
14  Regularly, west Scottish island turning up in recount (7)
NARRATE – {w}E{s}T (regularly) and ARRAN (Scottish island) all reversed (turning up).
15 Fish finger holds this for woman? (7)
HERRING – On a woman’s finger one might find HER RING.
19  In public vehicle, go to return fake (5)
BOGUS – OG (go, reversed, to return) in BUS (public vehicle)
20  CH2O2 processed into alcohol (5)
HOOCH – Anagram (processed) of C plus 2 x H and 2 x O (CH2O2) to give HOOCH – nice!
22  Cold greeting in foreign letter (3)
CHI – C{old} and HI (greeting) to give the letter CHI from the Greek alphabet.

40 comments on “Times Quick Cryptic No 1643 by Teazel”

  1. Ugh. First thought was CROW, but never heard of that tribe. Then I thought it must be COOT, which was wrong.
  2. I twigged to the CH2O2 right off, luckily, but had trouble with the estuary, where I flung in AMBER; fortunately I was forced to change that, and then remembered the Humber. I learned BISH from a 15×15 or two. I didn’t much care for the definition of PAINTING; ‘job for tradesman’ covers far too many possibilities. 5:51.
  3. 12 minutes for this one, so yet another target missed. I didn’t find any of it difficult but there were a couple of bits of wordplay that delayed me after I’d biffed the answers and as mentioned before, my timings always include understanding wordplay unless otherwise stated.

    BISH was never in my schoolboy slang but I learnt it quite recently from puzzles, probably 15x15s if Rotter didn’t recognise it.

    I had 8ac as a triple definition too, and we don’t get many of those in the Quickies.

  4. I forget how long but more than 10 mins so above my target. I liked the CH2O2 one (of course it would have amazing if the formula had actually been ethanol). I also liked WERE as a “sort of wolf”.
  5. This morning I decided to chew over and savour each clue rather than watch the clock (not that I’m very quick anyway) and as a result enjoyed it much more. I rolled each clue around in my head rather than biffing too much and only slipped up with WERE, which meant I didn’t get a time. Around 28m though at a guess.

    I liken the QC to a 5k run. If I try to beat my PB by belting round the course I get an immense sense of satisfaction at the end but the running is not enjoyable – painful even. Whereas if I trot around and enjoy the camaraderie and countryside, and concentrate on technique, It’s a far more pleasant experience.

    Today was most definitely a trot!

    Thanks Teazel. This was a good puzzle.

    Favourite clue 15d HERRING.

    Edited at 2020-06-25 06:23 am (UTC)

    1. Interesting analogy, QC = 5k run! It doesn’t work for me I’m afraid. The QC is one of life’s pleasures, whereas running is always a painful experience that I had beaten out of me as a thrusting young defence executive (Naval Officer), where we were discouraged from running as the sight of an officer running often had the effect of panicking the other ranks or ratings. Each to their own though!
    2. I agree with you, Slackercracker – if I think it’s easier
      I race against time, but later in the week I relax, knowing I probably can’t beat my personal clock, and actually enjoy it more.
      Today’s was horrendous, nowhere near finished, and I have no idea how long I took!
      Diana

      Edited at 2020-06-25 12:26 pm (UTC)

  6. Over 20 again and lucky to be all green. Nearly much faster but confidently putting in ONCE for wolf – turns out it’s a snow leopard – held me up. Having sorted that I could put in NARRATE but couldn’t parse. So mammals and Scottish Islands both need brushing up on – I had thought I was just short on culture. Also didn’t know CROW but having changed INCA once HOOCH went in it was either than or COOT. Also wasn’t totally confident of PISA and almost persuaded myself that DRAY could have been a Prime Minister before I saw sense. On reflection quite a lot of ignorance on display! Only five on the first pass of acrosses, so a tough day all round.

    Edited at 2020-06-25 07:10 am (UTC)

  7. 14:27 so reasonable for me. Slowed down slightly by putting in A BIT RICH for 1a originally, and only changing it when I saw UMBER later, but not a huge holdup.

    FOI: pisa
    LOI: were
    COD: hooch

  8. As usual I had problems with Teazel, leading to a DNF with NARRATE and PAINTING. I gave up early at 23 minutes, I’m just not on the Teazel wavelength.
    Thanks to therotter for explaining everything.

    Brian

  9. A very entertaining puzzle which started shakily but proceeded smoothly after fully engaging the brain cell. For some reason I initially wondered if BRANS could be a store rather than the more obvious BARNS and then had my usual dilemma over the spelling of GREY, where I wanted to include an A. I was pleased to quickly spot what was going on with HOOCH, which just pipped HERRING to my COD. Finished with LOI PAINTING in 9.52.
    Thanks to rotter.
  10. I was very slow with this but agree everything was fair. Put Pisa in straight away but didn’t see why we needed ‘yes and no’ till the penny dropped with your blog, so thanks therotter and of course Teazel. Hooch was clever, had me scratching my head for ages 🙂
  11. Like plett11 I finished with PAINTING but I was nowhere near his excellent time. It took me 17:47 of hard work to finish this challenging puzzle.
    FOI was ARCH, a slow start. Quite a few hold-ups including HERRING (a fish) which would have been COD (another fish) if not for HOOCH.
    I too dithered over GREY and also knew that CREE was a native tribe but had never seen one fly; another delay for thinking.
    A good puzzle. David
  12. A challenging but rewarding puzzle – some great clues. I will come clean and admit to being in the SCC again at 25.12. I found the NW very tough, coming back at the end to HOLSTER and A BIT MUCH, even though I ‘pencilled in’ A BIT at the very beginning. Blind spot. I had no problem with CROW, once the C of CHI (a gift) was in place. HERRING raised a smile, HOOCH was brilliant and ‘bish’ was a biff for me but it had to be. Thanks to Teazel for the usual test and to rotter for a thorough check on my parsing. John M,

    Edited at 2020-06-25 09:29 am (UTC)

  13. Not on Teazel’s wavelength. Or maybe late night (here) watching the reds.

    Struggled with grey/dray, arch, painting, narrate and crow.

    Think there are plenty of clues for crow more suited to the QC:

    Bird stuffed back in raw or cooked
    Show off bird
    Olympic rower holds bird
    Bird chases rich old widowers initially
    Black bird starts to caw: really overweight worm.

    COD were.

  14. … with some lovely clues. I was nicely misled by 16A Rarity, not seeing for some time that resort was actually re-sort and so the anagram-indicator. Another one to remember!

    Otherwise Teazel and I must have had a similar upbringing because most of the GK – Crow, (H)umber, Grey, even Bish seemed to flow in, to leave me all done in 12 minutes.

    Many thanks to Rotter for the blog
    Cedric

    Edited at 2020-06-25 09:32 am (UTC)

  15. A bang on target solve (10 mins) for a QC that seemed chewy in places. My FOI was 1a A BIT MUCH which is always a good start. I solved the grid today in quadrants finishing off in the SW corner. I biffed my POI HERRING and my LOI by some distance was the WERE wolf which hopefully I will remember going forward. Thanks Rotter for the blog.

    Edited at 2020-06-25 10:30 am (UTC)

  16. I was slower than usual with this puzzle. The SW held me up most, with NARRATE and PAINTING my last 2 in. Liked HOOCH. 12:32. Thanks Teazel and Rotter.
  17. Same as yesterday in that all was progressing well until the final two. In this case it was the “narrate” “painting” pair which caused me problems, although why it took so long for the penny to drop (especially for “narrate” where I had already considered Arran as the island) goodness knows. Oh well, there’s always tomorrow!

    FOI – 12ac Owen
    LOI – 21ac painting
    COD – got to be 20dn hooch. Simply wonderful.

  18. Was worried at first when the first few clues meant nothing to me at all (unless PAYN was a city somewhere) but things started to go in with ASK FOR IT and it turned out to be a steady and satisfying solve with my LOI RUBBISHY going in in 33:29 after realising that the “scented mixture” was not spelt POTPOURIR as I had it. Had never heard of BISH for blunder or GREY as a PM but realised it was probably a triple anyway. I was relieved to choose GREY over GRAY though. In case anybody’s interested CH2O2 (which would usually be written HCOOH to show the functional group) is Methanoic acid, more commonly known as Formic acid. This is the acid that ants use to defend themselves and has been known about for a long time apparently, originally being obtained by distilling the bodies of ants. Nice. Anyway, thanks Rotter and Teazel.
    1. Interesting – maybe that’s why the banana wine we brewed in the tropics only started fermenting when the ants found it… ‘tho I guess they might have been instrumental in bringing in yeast.
  19. I enjoyed this and got a very good time for me at 54 minutes. Some challenging clues but I enjoyed being able to work out the wordplay on almost of them for once. Pisa and Hooch were the exception so thank you for an excellent blog to explain!

    FOI was 1A A Bit Much (always lovely when that happens) and LOI was 15A Herring (which needed an alphabet trawl to find as I had forgotten that particular fish, though a lovely clue once I understood it!) COD has to be 14D Narrate for appearing as I worked through the wordplay. Thanks for an excellent puzzle!

  20. Thoroughly enjoyed this. BISH was new to me. Enjoyed GREY (very neat treble definition), and HOOCH is a lovely clue.
    PlayUpPompey
  21. ….A BIT MUCH for a QC, so I’m pleased to see that those who’ve posted earlier seem to have enjoyed this fairly stiff challenge. It took me over target, and had me ducking and diving all over the grid. Thank you Teazel for an excellent puzzle, and Rotter for the usual entertaining blog.

    FOI PISA
    LOI BARNS
    COD HOOCH
    TIME 5:27 (sorry Kevin, still 0.93K)

  22. This was on the harder side, but I was pleased to still come in around the 30 mins mark.

    I also wondered about “bish” – but more around the word “rubbishy” which didn’t feel right (although I am sure perfectly acceptable). 20dn brought back horrid memories of organic chemistry, but it took a few checkers before it finally clicked.

    Main hold ups were the SW corner, where it took an age to get 14dn “Narrate” and 23ac “Were” (I also thought “once” for a while).

    FOI – 3dn “Tay”
    LOI – 8ac “Grey”
    COD – 15dn “Herring” – maybe a chestnut, but just made me smile.

    Thanks as usual.

  23. Enjoyable puzzle. Liked RUBBISHY, helped by the word being clued in almost the same way in some other Times puzzle I’ve done (where it held me up)

    Absolutely no idea what was going on with the science thingy but H – – – H provided the necessary checkers. Clever clue though

    Liked PISA as well. Both the clue and the City. Ran a Half there (as running seems to have been an earlier theme) in mid Winter couple of years back. Freezing cold we were huddled next to the Duomo before the start but a cracking event – and a much underrated City I’d say

    Thanks all

  24. I had to put pen to paper on this one as there were some quite tricky clues but I finished in 16 minutes which is just one minute over my target.
    A BIT MUCH and PAINTING amused me but I had to biff RUBBISHY and NARRATE so thanks to Rotter for the explanations.
    When I checked whether POTPOURRI was one or two words, I found out that it was originally a meat stew (from the French for ‘rotten pot’). Wish I hadn’t bothered now!
    My COD goes to BELITTLE as it was such a compact clue.
    Many thanks to Teazel.
  25. Not fun or pleasurable, or to be repeated. Confirms to me I should not bother with Teazel. I do not believe this was right for a QC clueing to obscure.
    1. But then if you can’t tell “to” from “too” most cryptic puzzles will be too obscure.
  26. I seem to remember this word was used a lot by Jennings and Derbyshire in the Anthony Buckeridge novels to which I was addicted as a child.
    Hazelnut
  27. I biffed Clutch for 13ac and Handbag for 15 d which led to a DNF, of course. Liked Herring once I read the answer. And Answers were obvious once I read the blog.

    I like Belittle which I also failed on.

    Must take even more time and not put in clues that don’t parse. Too many bishes today.

    But thanks!

  28. Nice crossword
    When I went to senior school in 1966 there were still a couple of old fossils amongst the older boys that used “BISH” As QC is supposed to be to attract new solvers, I wonder how many under 40s will have heard of it, even if they went to school that last used it half a century ago
    Incidentally CH2O2 is Formic acid, the stuff ants use to sting and kill predators. Really not the stuff you want to make Hooch from
      1. There’s the rub, I was minus 7 in 66 and only knew of B bash bosh and percy B Shelley, live n learn eh.
  29. For whatever reason we struggled with this one. It took us a while to enter our first answer (never a good sign) and we seemed to ponder many of the clues for an absolute age. Of course it didn’t help that we incorrectly biffed handbag for 15D instead of herring (don’t ask – we made it work) and bash instead of arch for 17A (we made that one work too). After giving ourselves a strict talking to, we pulled ourselves together and finished in 32 minutes. So, thanks to Teazel for testing us today – it’s good to have a tougher workout every now and then.

    FOI: snatch
    LOI: painting
    COD: hooch

    Thanks to Rotter for the blog.

  30. I thought I was making a right BISH of that so I’m glad to see that others found it hard too. Definitely more like a mini 15 than a QC but some excellent clues – when the penny dropped for HERRING and BELITTLE I did the full range of snort, slap forehead and groan! Limped home in 16 mins or 3K, which has to go down as a Bad Day even though I enjoyed the puzzle very much.

    FOI GREY, LOI BELITTLE, COD HERRING.

    Thanks Teazel and Rotter.

    Templar

  31. Enjoyed this puzzle – lots of clever clues as mentioned above. Seemed to suit us as we were within our modest 30m target. Had to check “bish”, but there could not be other solution. Thanks, Teasel.
  32. Another late post after I decided to admit defeat at breakfast this morning. Maybe the weather had got to me as even when I decided the anagrist I couldn’t even deduce answer. Nor read straight enough to to find the final letter of 18a rubbishy, or even work out 2a Pisa. All clues I would have expected to sail through easily. Even missed the obvious with 15d herring, although got the right answer… Thanks to Rotter for showing my oversights and to Teazel for a not so hard after all puzzle! Maybe I’ll have better luck this afternoon or evening?

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